Phenomenal Conversations #37 On Tradition, Embodiment & Devotion Ways of Being with Dr. Swan Dao

What happens when philosophy isn’t enough? When intellect meets devotion, and tradition becomes lived experience?

In this heartfelt and thought-provoking episode, Dr. Swan Dao shares his deeply personal path through inherited religious traditions, embodied spiritual practice, and the art of soulful living.

✨ Key Highlights:

• Rooted Yet Restless: Raised in a culturally rich family spanning Buddhist, Caodaist, Catholic, and Anglican traditions, Dr. Dao’s spiritual curiosity was sparked by a sense that something deeper was missing.
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• From the Mind to the Body: Dissatisfied with purely intellectual inquiry, he shifted toward felt experience — living out spiritual truths beyond theory, especially within monastic and devotional settings.
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• Honoring Tradition Without Being Bound by It: Instead of rejecting religious heritage, Dr. Dao explores how we can reclaim wisdom from ancestral traditions without falling into dogma.
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• Walking Many Paths at Once: He invites us to consider a “meta-modern” spirituality — holding multiple ways of being without collapsing them into one fixed truth.
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• Theater as Devotion: Turning to physical theater, Dr. Dao speaks of art not as self-expression, but as a sacred response — a way to deepen our human presence.
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• Soul Work in Community: Beyond one-on-one therapy, he emphasizes collective healing through community practices, like the Zeg Forum, and a vision of cross-disciplinary growth.

👁️‍🗨️ This episode is a treasure for anyone exploring spiritual embodiment, ancestral traditions, artistic devotion, or soul-centered transformation.

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Phenomenal Conversation #35: Biocentric Education – Learning in Service to Life with Benjamin Freud

‍What if education didn't just serve the student, but served life itself?

Benjamin Freud of Green School Bali shares how biocentric education can be a guiding principle in shaping the future. By placing life at the center—human and more-than-human—we begin to reimagine what learning is really for.

Can learning environments become catalysts for regeneration, not just places for information transfer? How can education align with the patterns and principles of living systems?

At Green School Bali:

• Students engage in regenerative design and innovation, from reef-safe solutions to upcycled gear—proof that young minds can lead meaningful ecological change.
• Curriculum emerges from student agency, community needs, and planetary health, challenging conventional hierarchies and assumptions.
• Learning becomes a lived practice, rooted in connection, care, and reciprocity with the living world.

This raises deeper questions:

• What does it mean to learn with nature rather than about it?
• How might classrooms change if designed as ecosystems rather than factories?
• What if teachers were seen not as knowledge providers, but as facilitators of inter-being and awareness?
• Can biocentric education help us navigate the paradox of living regeneratively within extractive systems?

Biocentric learning challenges us to rethink not only what we teach—but why we teach at all. Curious to hear your reflections: what would a truly life-serving education look like to you?

Education isn’t just about knowledge—it’s about cultivating a future where learning supports all life.
Read and follow more about Benjamin's work on his website ⁠https://coconut-thinking.com/podcasts/⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #36 Invitation to the Edge of Eros with Pamela von Sabljar

In Phenomenal Conversation #36, speaker, facilitator, and mentor Pamela von Sabljar shares insights from her 25-year journey exploring the next edge of leadership—where inner development meets systemic transformation.This conversation dives into:

• The Phenomenon of "We Spaces" – How shared awareness fosters radical authenticity, transpersonal trust, and collective creativity.
• The Evolution of Consciousness – Moving beyond individual awareness into intersubjective intelligence, where groups access deeper coherence and emergent wisdom.
• Coherence, Eros, and Energy Blockages – The role of erotic energy in collective spaces and the hidden blockages that disrupt flow.
• Systemic Change & Conscious Leadership – Real-world applications of interbeing, including work with Bitcoin’s DAO and the power of polarity to ignite creative breakthroughs.This is more than a conversation—it’s an invitation to the living edge of what’s possible.
  
  Tune in and explore
  More on Pamela here ⁠https://www.pamelavonsabljar.com/⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #34 Exploring the Ecological Organisation with Anna-Marie Swann

Anna-Marie Swan shares her insights on how organizations can embody ecological principles to thrive in complex, interconnected environments.

Key themes include:
- The Journey to Ecological Organizations: Anna-Marie's transition from hierarchical charities to exploring self-managed organizations rooted in living systems thinking.
- Organizations as Living Systems: Moving beyond mechanistic models to recognize organizations as dynamic, interdependent entities with unique life forces.
- Ecological Inquiry in Practice: Introducing a design lens of eight guiding questions that help organizations cultivate ecological awareness and resilience.
- The Role of the Founder: Anna-Marie reflects on the challenges and responsibilities of pioneering this work, including the delicate balance of serving the organization’s needs while releasing the framework for wider, non-commercial use.
- The Call for Collective Imagination: Highlighting the importance of curiosity and inquiry in reimagining organizational boundaries as co-created, fluid stories.

This conversation invites leaders to step into a more relational, systems-aware approach to leadership in a world facing unprecedented ecological and social challenges.
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More about Anna-Marie here https://annamarieswan.com/
‍On Ecological Organisations; https://bit.ly/Ecological-org

Phenomenal Conversation #33 On Fourth Person Knowing with Eva Pomeroy

In a world of rapid change, deep dialogue and awarenesss based transformation are more important than ever. In this conversation with Eva Pomeroy, we explore:The rise of small groups gathering for meaningful exchange

• Awareness-based systems change – shifting from ego to eco
• How Theory U helps us learn from the emerging future
• Leadership as shaping the social field – beyond formal roles
• The mystery of Fourth Person Knowing – knowledge emerging between us
• Its deep connections to indigenous wisdom, neuroscience, and transpersonal psychology

Join us in rethinking how we know, lead, and transform.

Watch, comment, like, subscribe, and share! Let’s expand this conversation.

More about Eva via the Presencing Institute https://www.u-school.org/team/vita/eva-pomeroy

Journal of Awareness Based Systems Change (Eva is an editor)⁠https://jabsc.org/index.php/jabsc

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Phenomenal Conversation #32 Metaphor Embodiment and the Knowing Field with Kim Hermanson

Key Themes from the Discussion:-

Metaphor as a Gateway to Embodied Knowing:

Metaphor is presented as more than a linguistic tool. It is a deeply embodied way of perceiving and understanding the world, rooted in intuition and the senses. It bypasses the overemphasis on the rational mind, revealing truths that words alone cannot fully capture.

- The Knowing Field:

Hermanson introduces the concept of an intelligent, creative field that guides human potential and connects individuals to a deeper wisdom. By learning to trust this field, it becomes possible to access clarity, purpose, and creative brilliance that emerge naturally.

- Shifting from Control to Allowing:

A mindset grounded in control and rigid frameworks can obstruct access to this field. Hermanson emphasizes the importance of releasing the need for certainty, inviting an openness that allows the knowing field to flow through embodiment and metaphor.

- The Third Space:

Described as a shared space of transformation, this is where teacher and learner meet to access collective wisdom. In this space, roles dissolve, and creative expression takes precedence over conventional methods of knowledge transfer.

Dr Kim Hermanson's insights highlight the value of embracing embodied, intuitive ways of knowing in times of change. Metaphor becomes not just a tool but a way of "seeing" that aligns with the rhythm of the knowing field, offering new possibilities for creativity and growth.

More about Kim here:⁠https://www.kimhermanson.com/about/⁠

Her book the Knowing Field⁠https://www.kimhermanson.com/deep-kno.

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Phenomenal Conversation #31 A Radical Exploration of Reality with Jude Currivan

In this interview Jude shares how she sees the cosmos as a purposeful, interconnected integrated system evolving from simplicity to complexity.

Key Insights:  1. The Big Breath: The universe didn’t begin in chaos but with a harmonious, finely tuned expansion that continues to this day.  

2. Evolutionary Journey: From hydrogen to galaxies, planets, and conscious beings, the universe follows a path toward greater complexity and awareness.  

3. A Unified Cosmos: Everything in the universe is deeply interconnected, forming a seamless whole despite appearances of separateness.  

4. Non-Physical Foundations: Beyond matter lies a deeper cosmic intelligence. Energy, space, and time are emergent expressions of this unseen reality.  

5.Information as the Core: The universe operates on a fundamental language of meaningful information, shaping its evolution and structure.

6. Holographic Reality: Like a hologram, the universe’s patterns of information create a reality that is relational and dynamic, spanning all scales of existence.  

7. Humanity’s Role in Conscious Evolution: We stand at a tipping point. By recognizing our interconnectedness with Gaia and the cosmos, we can align with the universe’s purpose and consciously shape its next chapter.  

- Listen and Explore these profound ideas with Jude Currivan. ---- More about Jude's new film here A Radical Guide to Reality - ⁠ A Radical Guide to Reality  ⁠More on Jude's website here: ⁠https://www.wholeworld-view.org⁠

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Phenomenal Conversations are crafted and curated to expand imagination, ask profound questions and promote generative enquiry in order to embrace the magnitude of the polycrisis and contribute towards a (Re)Generative Worldview

Connect with Dave Pendle the founder on his website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Generative You⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #30 Healing: The Heart of Regeneration with Katherine Long

This dialogue took the form of a co-dialogue between Katherine and Dave Pendle host of these conversations

💖 Highlights from "Healing: The Heart of Regeneration"

🌱 Healing as EvolutionHealing isn’t about a quick fix—it’s an ongoing, evolutionary process. It integrates learning, adapts to change, and fosters new levels of wholeness as we grow.

🧠 Healing as Remembering Natural systems, living beings, and humans all possess an innate memory of wholeness. Healing reconnects us to this capacity and fosters regeneration.

⚡ Trauma Without Identity  The dialogue warns against a “trauma identity,” where individuals define themselves by their trauma. Instead, healing is about moving forward and embracing gratitude for the privileges and freedoms of life.  

🤝 Community in Healing Healing thrives in community. By engaging with diverse groups and learning with humility, we expand our perspectives and strengthen collective regeneration.  

🌟 A Regenerative Vision This conversation invites us to see healing as a path to wholeness—personally, communally, and ecologically.  

More about Katherine Long here⁠https://www.evolutionhealing.com/abou...⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #29 "Integrating Consciousness, Science, and Technology with Peter Merry

This Phenomenal Conversation features Peter Merry, Chief Executive of Wyrd Technologies Ltd, discusses his groundbreaking work at the intersection of consciousness and science. With a rich background in eco-activism, theater, and systemic thinking, Peter delves into the evolution of his integrative approaches to human development, spirituality, and technology.

📚 Key Themes

1️⃣ Formative Influences🔹 Global interconnectedness: Experiences in Ghana revealed how macroeconomic policies impact grassroots communities.🔹 Integral frameworks: Inspired by Ken Wilber, Peter emphasizes inner transformation paired with societal change.🔹 Energetic practices: Training in eco-intention opened avenues for practical applications of energy fields.

2️⃣ The Volution Theory🔸 Evolution and involution are two aspects of a continuous spinning process akin to a torus, blending subtle and material dynamics.🔸 Jude Currivan’s concept of the "Big Breath" aligns with this model, emphasizing universal flow.

3️⃣ Time and Consciousness🟢 At subtle levels, time is non-linear and accessible in ways beyond conventional understanding, as demonstrated by experiments in remote viewing and performance enhancement.

4️⃣ Leadership and Energy Fields🟠 In Leading From the Field, Peter shares principles for leaders to align their inner state with organizational outcomes through conscious interaction with energetic fields.

Conclusion/TakeawaysPeter’s innovative work challenges materialistic paradigms and invites us to explore the interconnectedness of reality through practical, tangible experiences. Whether through leadership, technology, or education, his mission is to foster a world where consciousness and science collaboratively unlock human potential.

✨ Reflection Point for ViewersReflect on how integrating consciousness into your personal or professional life could deepen your understanding of interconnected systems.

• More on Peter's ⁠Volution Theory⁠ here:
  On ⁠Leading from the Field⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #28 (Re)Generative Energy in Living Systems with Curtis Ogden

Highlights from (Re)Generative Energy in Living Systems 🌱 Energy Systems Science: Curtis shares his journey from traditional systems work to energy systems science, inspired by Dr. Sally Gerner’s "The New Science of Sustainability," which views "everything as energy" within systems.

🔄 Shifting Perspectives: Traditional systems science often emphasizes structure, while energy systems science focuses on the dynamic flow and transformation of energy within systems.

💡 Personal Insights: Through his health journey post cancer-radiation, Curtis learned to see his body as an interconnected system, gaining a deeper understanding of energy systems.🏛️ Four Pillars of Energy Systems Science

• 🌊 Regenerative flows: Identify and support essential movement within systems.
• ⚖️ Balanced structure: Structures like agreements or physical frameworks facilitate regenerative flows.
 
• 🤝 Common cause: Building mutual purpose within and across systems.
 
• 📚 Continuous learning: Embracing adaptation, innovation, and evolution.

🌍 Well-Being as a Systemic Value - Well-being includes communities, ecosystems, and the more-than-human world. Curtis links core well-being domains (stability, mastery, connectivity, meaning, growth) to energy systems.

🌈 Finding Unity in Diversity, Curtis advocates for creating common ground amidst diversity, fostering shared purpose and interconnectedness.

🔥 Embracing Systemic Ruptures: System ruptures, like societal or natural upheavals, are essential for renewal and transformation, driving change in both ecological and social systems.

🪶 Indigenous Wisdom: Curtis emphasizes the value of indigenous knowledge, respect for all beings, and harmony with nature, sharing his experiences with the Connecticut River Watershed Partnership.

🌌 Ceremony and Healing: Inspired by Indigenous Elder Gay Hoako Norma Jacobs, Curtis highlights the role of ceremony in healing individuals, society, and ecosystems.

More about Curtis here;

https://interactioninstitute.org/people/curtis-ogden/

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My conversation with Bruce Anderson focused on the concept of identifying and embracing one's unique gifts as a pathway to discovering purpose in life. Exploring the evolution of purpose from passion-driven pursuits to understanding it as a gift that emerges through acts of giving. The discussion highlighted the importance of healing through expressing these gifts, even if they are imperfect, and emphasized the value of intimate, small-scale gatherings over larger events for fostering authentic, meaningful connections in the regenerative movement.Key Points: include-Finding Purpose Through Gifts

• Purpose is seen as a unique gift, discovered through self-reflection and giving rather than self-reflection alone.
• Healing is connected to expressing one's gifts, with personal growth often stemming from addressing core wounds.
• Speakers discussed the interplay between gifts and core wounds, illustrating how struggles can lead to personal and communal contributions.

• Core Gift Process:
• Unlike traditional tools (e.g., Myers-Briggs), the core gift process offers a unique way to understand individual purpose.
• Personal stories shared illustrate how repeated attention to one’s gifts can lead to growth and transformation over time.
• A tool has been developed to help individuals identify patterns and gifts through life experiences.

More about the grass roots Core Gift Community here https://www.coregift.org/home

Phenomenal Conversation #26 Improvisation, Art and Creative Emergence with Michelle James

Michelle James is a pioneering creativity catalyst who has been using universal creative principles and the process of emergence as the basis for her work with thousands of people - individuals, corporations and communities - for over two decades.In this interview we cover a broad range of related topics: In this interview we cover a broad range of related topics;

• Improv- Improvisation as core practice for life
• Creative Arts and fostering imagination in organisations
 
• The tension between structure and flow when designing for emergence
 
• Cultivating and nurturing conditions that ignite emergence
 
• Purpose, Cosmic Creativity and Generativity

More about Michelle  here

⁠https://www.creativeemergence.com/about/⁠

Michelle's latest book here Pattern Break ⁠https://patternbreaks.com

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Phenomenal Conversation #25 The Regenerative Power and Potential of Place with Jenny Andersson

Trailblazers such as my interviewee Jenny Andersson open pathways towards new worlds. As their passion and dedication enable us to think deeply and ask more useful questions. In this and the subsequent live shared dialogue, we touched upon the following;

• How the regeneration of place focuses on potential not along the problem/solution axis.
• Living systems do not solve probleams, they evolve by sensing and reacting
 
• Outcome driven approaches obstruct emergence
 
• Regenerative practice concerns responding creatively to the urgency of what needs to happen and being attuned enough, to sense what wants to emerge.
 
• The Regenerative Space that emerged as we explored together, manifested as a vibrant, poignant fractal of the new world. Underpinned by a living communion of all sentient beings and non beings. This was not an inbetween space, sincere regenerative practice brings this world into being!
 
• Learn more about Jenny's signature placemaking course :⁠https://reallyregenerative.org/power-...⁠

Phenomenal Conversation 24 on 'Leader as Mystic' with Robin Alfred

In this riveting conversation Robin Alfred an expert in Spiritual Leadership and Organizational Development shares his wisdom of accrued in many years of research and experimentation

• Mysticism, spirituality, and seeking higher truth. Mysticism as seeking and embodying the highest form of truth available.

• Mystical leadership approaches and their relevance in today's world. Including the importance of tapping into higher sources of inspiration and energy for adaptability and innovation.

 
• How unaddressed trauma in organizations hinders progress  and requires mystical approach. How obstacles are opportunities for growth, not barriers to be overcome.

 
• Spiritual development and ethics, with a focus on the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions and acknowledging shadow aspects.

 
• How Mystical Leadership  assiste with finding purpose and meaning in the face of global crisis.
  
  More about Robin here;⁠https://www.opencircle.live/team/robin

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Phenomenal Conversation #23 A Life Imbued with Embodied Intelligence with Kirstie Simson

This conversation with Kirstie Simson explores how dance, deep listening, and embodied intelligence have shaped her whole life. From a transformative epiphany in contact improvisation to her journey through cancer, Kirstie shares how movement is both her art and way of being.

• Kirstie found freedom in movement beyond traditional dance forms, leading her to contact improvisation—a practice rooted in presence, gravity, and deep listening.
• A life-changing moment affirmed her belief that everything she needed was already within her.
• She sees dance as a practice of undoing limitations and embracing life’s natural flow.

• Diagnosed with breast cancer in 2020, she approached healing as she does dance—meeting each challenge with openness and adaptability.
• She questions society’s view of illness, seeing it as a source of wisdom rather than just something to overcome.
• Her performance about cancer is both personal healing and a way to shift cultural narratives around sickness and the body.

Kirstie’s journey is a testament to the power of embodied intelligence—trusting life, listening deeply, and embracing transformation through movement.

Key Themes:Dance as a Path to Embodied Intelligence/Navigating Cancer as an Improviser/ About Kirstie here

https://www.kirstiesimson.com/

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Phenomenal Conversations#20 Integrative Worldviews and Regenerative Cultures with Annick de Witt

(Discovering the Power of Integrative Worldviews 🌍)

How do our worldviews shape our understanding of the world—and our relationship with nature?

In Phenomenal Conversation #20, we dive into the evolution of worldviews and explore their role in fostering a regenerative culture.

🔑 Key Themes:

• What is a worldview? A “big story” we unconsciously inherit, influencing how we perceive reality, values, and our relationship with nature.
• The Four Major Worldviews:
• Awareness and Choice: Becoming conscious of our inherited perspectives allows us to grow and embrace diverse viewpoints.
• Nature as Sacred: Moving beyond exploitation to partnership, inspired by the integrative worldview and indigenous practices.

Through this dialogue, we uncover how understanding worldviews can transform complex challenges like the environmental crisis into opportunities for growth and connection.

Listen to the audio and join us in shaping a regenerative future.

Discover your own worldview here using Annick's unique survey; ⁠https://wvtest.com/responses/5b9vx2/i...⁠More about Annicks organisation Worldview Journeys here; ⁠https://worldviewjourneys.com/⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation # 19 Enacting The Planetary Civilization with Jeremy Johnson

In this episode, scholar Jeremy Johnson explores the work of philosopher Jean Gebser, who examined the unfolding layers of human consciousness. These layers reveal interrelated complexities, each offering newdimensions of how time, self, and the world are experienced in the following domains:

Archaic: Rooted in undivided wholeness
Magic: A realm of interonnectedness and shared vitality
Mythic: Rich with symbolic meaning and qualitative time
Mental: Defined by logic abstraction and individualism Integral: A deeper wholeness that integrates and transcends the ealier layers
Drawing from his book Fragments of an Integral Future,Johnson explores nonlinear histories and the potential for fresh narratives to shape sustainable futures.

"Integral consciousness invites humility, curiosity,and openness to complexity."

This conversation offers a deeply thoughtful sincere vision for fostering planetary harmony and deeper connection.

You can keep up to date with Jeremy's writings here on Substack ⁠https://jeremydjohnson.substack.com/⁠Or Join his community and sign up for his courses here ⁠https://mutations.mn.co/

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Phenomenal Conversation #22 The Transformative Power of Language with Claudia Gross

What if Words Could Change the World?

Imagine this: every word you speak, every phrase you choose, shapes not just your reality but the realities of those around you. How do thewords you use daily affect your relationships, your workplace, or even theplanet?

This is the transformative question Claudia Gross exploresin her work and her project, Speak Green. Listen to the latest podcast, which dives into her wisdom—and then continue the conversation together.

What We’ve Learned From Claudia

Language as a Creative ForceClaudia reminds us: “Words don’t just describe—they create.” Positive, future-focused language invites hope, possibility, and connection.

The Pain and Power of WordsClaudia shares how she experiences words physically and emotionally, making her acutely aware of their impact. What if we doubled our vocabularies—not just to sound smarter but to offer more choices for connection and understanding?

From Red to GreenThrough Speak Green, Claudia introduces a shift from "redlanguage" (reactive, critical) to "giraffe language"(open-hearted, constructive). It’s not about sugarcoating but about naming issues truthfully—and choosing words that inspire action.

Practical WisdomClaudia’s “headstand exercise” turns worst-case scenarios upside down to unlock playful, creative solutions. What practices could you bring to your own teamsor communities?

Join the Enquiry

How can we consciously shape language to co-create betterworlds? Here’s how to join the conversation:

Listen to Claudia’s full story on our podcast for tools and insights.Engage with us in the comments: What’s one word or phrase you’ve found transformative?Follow us for more on the power of intentional communication.Sign up for resources and updates to keep the conversation going.Share this post and invite others into this co-enquiry.

Let’s explore the power of words—together. 🌟

More about Claudia's book ⁠Words Create Worlds⁠About ⁠Speak Green

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Phenomenal Conversation #21 Exploring Regenerative Finance with Matthew Bonnstetter

Matthew Bonstetter, a pioneer in regenerative finance (ReFi) since the 1990s, shares his bold vision for transforming destructive economic systems into ones that restore and replenish the planet.

Key Insights

• Regenerative Finance: Moving beyond sustainability to align with natural systems, regenerating rather than depleting resources.
• Innovative Solutions: Practices like no-till farming, blockchain transparency, and quadratic funding empower local and global change.
• Philanthropy & Ecosystems: Bonstetter emphasizes heart-centered initiatives, connecting people and projects to create self-sustaining networks.
• Success Stories: From Colombia to Uganda, small interventions—like a bicycle—can spark powerful transformations.

Notable Quote“Sustainability is not enough; we must regenerate.”

ConclusionBonstetter’s work inspires optimism, showing that small, intentional actions and inclusive collaboration can drive the shift to a regenerative future.

Connect with ⁠Matthew on Twitter

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Phenomenal Conversation #18 The Politics of Waking Up with Indra Adnan

This conversation with Indra Adnan delves into her vision for transforming politics in the 21st century, moving beyond the failures of traditional systems to create community-led, holistic models of governance.

Key Insights:

Adnan critiques conventional politics as outdated and incapable of addressing critical global issues like environmental and social crises.

• She champions individual agency and power as catalysts for societal transformation.
• Central to her vision is the "parallel polis" concept, a framework for self-organized community systems, such as Community Agency Networks (CANs).
• Integrating personal growth and political action is essential, creating a dynamic where spirituality and activism align.
• A new media ecosystem is necessary to amplify and connect grassroots efforts globally.
• Adnan highlights "Planet A" as an already existing alternative that needs nurturing, focusing on community-driven solutions.
• Her "IE World Axis" integrates personal, community, and planetary well-being into a foundation for an "eco-civilization."
• The overarching shift, the "politics of waking up," emphasizes moving from individualism to collective and global awareness, fostering empowerment and action at every level.
• This dialogue underscores the urgency of reimagining governance through empowered communities, interconnected initiatives, and a profound integration of the personal and political.

More about ⁠Indra here ⁠

Her new media platform ⁠The Alternative⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #17 The Creative Spark of True Dialogue with Ruchama Hood

This transformative conversation dives into the power of meaningful exchange, exploring how curiosity, creativity, and intentionality in dialogue can open up infinite possibilities for connection and growth.

Key Highlights:

• The "Third Presence": When meaningful conversations flow, a creative dynamic emerges beyond individual contributions.
• Curiosity as a Lifeline: Staying alive and curious deepens relationships and fuels authentic self-expression.
• The Gift of Self: Embracing your uniqueness isn't arrogance—it’s generosity, empowering connection and creativity.
• Beauty, Gratitude, & Tenderness: Moments of care, love, and gratitude enrich our interactions, grounding us in what truly matters.
• Challenges as Growth Soil: Life’s difficulties often seed new beginnings and deeper connections.

"Conversations should be opportunities for play, creation, and sharing the preciousness of life."

Dive into this new episode for an inspiring exploration of how dialogue shapes a more beautiful, connected world. 🌍

More about ⁠Ruchama here;⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #16 with Niels Devisscher on Regenerative Sympoetic Art.

Regenerative Worlding: Weaving Life ThroughSympoesis

What if art didn’t just imitate nature but collaborated with it, breathing vitality into our interconnected web of existence?

Niels de Visscher calls this “regenerative worlding”—apractice of living and creating that recognizes our interdependence with all beings, human and more-than-human. His work, rooted in photography, communication design, and sympoetic art, invites us to shift from separation to belonging, from extraction to renewal.

The Sympoetic Lens: Nothing Creates Alone

Inspired by Donna Haraway’s concept of sympoeisis,DeVisscher reminds us that everything emerges from relationships. A childhood tree entwined with his identity stands as a living metaphor: we are shaped bythe places, beings, and systems we grow with.

Imagination Beyond the Human

DeVisscher’s Multi-species Imagination Workshopsinvite participants to embody the perspectives of other beings. What might a tree feel as it reaches for sunlight? How does a bee perceive the hum of itshive?

Art as World-Building

Art, for DeVisscher, is not a solitary act but aregenerative practice. His photography and collages echo the rhythms of nature, his collaborations with Living systems celebrate the co-creation inherent in life itself.

This Sympoetic Art—art that emergesfrom relationship—goes beyond beauty. It offers a path to rediscover meaning, reconnect with the living world.

Beyond Marketing: Regenerative CommunicationWorking with Re:Storied, DeVisscher reimagines communicationas an invitation into possibility. Moving away from the language of “selling'

Connect with Niels via ⁠Re:Storied⁠and via ⁠Sympoesis World⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #15 - Activating Your Inner Pioneer with Carla de Ruiter

Key points include:

• Carla's leadership journey began with a profound spiritual experience in Florence, inspiring a more humane and connected approach to leadership.
• She emphasizes women’s leadership, encouraging women to embrace their unique gifts and step into authentic, impactful roles.
• Core qualities of pioneering leaders include:

• Stepping out of comfort zones and embracing the unknown.
• Practicing self-reflection and acting with unwavering integrity.
• Living creatively and in alignment with deeply understood values.

• Carla highlights the role of social impact, encouraging leaders to focus on solutions that create meaningful change.
• Her key question: "What does life want from me?" invites us to uncover purpose and contribute to a better world.

Listen now to explore Carla’s vision for pioneering leadership and its transformative power!

Findout more about Carla here;
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Phenomenal Conversation #14 Pioneering Regenerative Higher Education with Bas van den Berg

Higher education is at a crossroads. In this inspiring conversation, Bas van den Berg explores how reimagining education can help us build regenerative cultures that nurture both people place and the planet.

Key Challenges in Higher Education Today:1. A well-being crisis among students and staff.2. Limited interdisciplinary approaches to complex global intractable problems.3. Insufficient awareness of education’s overall environmental impact.

Bas champions regenerative education—an approach designed to restore relationships, cultivate well-being, and address systemic challenges through transformative practices.

Highlights from the Conversation:- Creating Space for Reflection: Incorporating dialogue, mindfulness, and nature-based learning to foster deep connection.

- Community-Centric Learning: Making the world the curriculum by tackling real-life "wicked problems" alongside communities. - Prioritizing Well-Being: Building team resilience through empathetic leadership, outdoor activities, and shared learning.

- Wisdom from Decay: Embracing pain and transition as part of both personal and societal growth toward life-affirming systems.

Takeaway:Higher education has the power to shape a regenerative future. By integrating well-being, community, and sustainability, we can prepare learners to thrive in a complex world and contribute meaningfully to its healing.

More About Bas ⁠here

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Phenomenal Conversation #12 with Mattias Ohlson on Agency, Climate Emotion and the Gigaton Challenge
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Mattias is a Swedish born, Zambia based, clean/green tech entrepreneur attempting to offer instantly verfiable carbon credits democratising this economy through tokenisation and blockchain‍

Key Insights from this interview

🚀 A Gigaton of Climate Impact Focused on reducing one gigaton of carbon emissions annually, the Gigaton Challenge promotes scalable, sustainable solutions, particularly in regions like Zambia, where Matthias Olson’s Emerging Cooking initiative leads the way.

🍃 Cleaner Cooking, Regenerative Impact Traditional charcoal cooking emits nearly a gigaton of CO₂ each year. Emerging Cooking offers a cleaner solution: biomass wood pellets from forestry waste, replacing unsustainable practices with renewable alternatives for healthier homes and a healthier planet.

💻 Technology for Equity & Transparency Using blockchain, Olson’s Supermoto platform aims to democratize the carbon market, allowing small players—like Tanzanian farmers planting trees—to directly benefit from their climate efforts. This tech-driven approach enhances transparency, reduces greenwashing, and makes carbon markets accessible to all.

🤝 Collaboration & Partnerships Matthias emphasizes that no one can tackle this challenge alone. By building partnerships across the Global North and South, and engaging local communities, the Gigaton Challenge ensures that solutions are context-specific, scalable, and community-driven.

🌐 Ethics and Equity in Climate Action The episode addresses ethical considerations around sustainability in the Global South: respecting local knowledge, avoiding extractive practices, and ensuring that climate projects genuinely uplift local communities and ecosystems.

🌱 A Regenerative Vision for Climate JusticeThe Gigaton Challenge invites everyone to join in building a regenerative, inclusive approach to climate action—one that values both impact and equity for a sustainable, just future.

Find out more here about Mattias' clean tech and carbon democratization work

⁠Supa Moto⁠

⁠Emerging Cooking Solutions⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #13 The Unusual Art of Designing for Transformation with Lorenz Sell

Lorenz Sell’s journey into transformative learning started with a mystical experience, leading him to create Sutra—a platform that fosters deep human connection through relational learning.

‍Key Insights from Lorenz's Approach:
‍🌱 Transformation Through Presence "Transformation happens when people are deeply present with themselves and each other."
🔗 Relational CapacitySkills like attunement, deep listening, and inner coherence are essential for building authentic connections.
💻 Online as a Space for Connection "Online learning is like the difference between a book and a movie—different, but both valuable."
🔄 Prototyping for GrowthExperiment, iterate, and embrace failures as learning opportunities. The journey to creating impactful experiences is iterative
.📈 **Practical, Mindful Practices** Small moments of stillness and presence can transform group dynamics.Lorenz’s work reminds us that authentic connection is the foundation of transformation—whether online or in person.

More one Lorenz's and his wife Natasha's learning platform Sutra

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Phenomenal Conversation #11: Activating Soul Purpose with Sophie Wisbrun

Sophie Wisbrun is a nature-positive change catalyst, a sustainable business and leadership transformation coach, educator, speaker, purpose expert, and board advisor.

This was the last episode of the first season and had an altered format without the usual live audience.

We discussed several key issues in the call;

• Soul Purpose, Leadership and flourishing organisations
• Radical Honesty that is required for true transformation
• Embracing Wholeness being essential to genuine Sustainability
• Nature can guide and inspire Regenerative Practices

Sophie is the founder of ⁠Doing Business Doing Good ⁠& We Are Nature

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Phenomenal Conversation #10 Designing for Thrivability with Michelle Holliday

Michelle Holliday Thrivability Maven, Author Consultant and Facilitator pioneers the art the living systems design she terms Thrivability.

An audio of this live in person gathering, includes some contributions from participants. Some of what was shared in the interview exploring this important topic includes;

• Almost anyone will have an intuitive sense of what it means to thrive
• The difference between Sustainability and Thrivability
• The design of livings systems as the blueprint for thrivability
• How communities and ecologies of care are foundational to being able to thrive
• A practical case study that flips the core assumptions of vacation sites
  
  About Thrivability here;⁠https://ageofthrivability.com/⁠
  ‍About Michelle here ⁠https://michelleholliday.com/⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #9 on 'The Unusual Business of Death' with Susanne Duijvestein

Susanne Duijvestein a young entrepreneur, death doula, funeral entrepreneur, ceremony leader, educator and guide.

Susanne is a notable pioneering reformer, as she wishes the industry and it's clients to become more ecological or sustainable, holistic, psychologically informed and more conscious about how to handle our own and loved ones departure from the world.Whilst not recorded, some interesting highlights from the following group discussion included:

- Loss bereavement and the decline of the earth is calling to grieve fully and extensively
- Encountering death and it's reality is a key to human maturity
- True mourning or grieving is not only episodic it connects to all of the losses in our lives thus is it's underlying tapestry
- Facing the inevitability of death is to be in touch with reality
-Those who surrender to death can become a light unto themselves and others
- Whether we admit it or not every transition every shift or loss is a minor encounter with death and it shapes the whole of our life

More about Susanne's work you can find here ⁠https://www.bijafscheid.nl/⁠
Her Dutch book can be bought here;⁠https://libris.nl/boek?authortitle=su...⁠

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Phenomenal Conversation #8 The Urgent Need for Radical Organisations with Jose Leal

Jose Leal - Cofounder of Radical Purpose and co-signatory to the Radical Declaration of Interdependence. Shares his views on the total necessity of organisational reform to create more radically human and planetary centric organisations

Topics covered included;

• Comparing the Power of Purpose and the Power of Force
• Activating people's natural intrinsic motivation
• Creating conditions for aligning with life and not acting against it.
• Taking full responsibility and as a step ofdevelopmental maturity.

More about Jose here: ⁠https://www.radicalpurpose.org/⁠

Phenomenal Conversation #7 The Adventure of Eldership in an Age of Disruption with Dorothe Liebig

Dorothe Liebig psychologist and systemic consultant, in dialogue about Eldership. About it's developmental phases, it's role, it's obligations, as well as the intimations and possibilities that the current moment might offer in advancing the Adventure of Eldership. We explore issues and questions similar or identical to;

• Erik Erickson's developmental model of late stage adulthood
• The dynamic phases and tensions when more towards maturity
• How might elders consciously preserve and conserve, the good, the true and beautiful? How possible is it to, refashion conceptions and expressions of Eldership, so they might offer faith and existential confidence, in living fully, even as human self destruction seems imminent.

More about Dorothe here: ⁠https://www.aeon-group.com/de/about/p...⁠

Phenonemal Conversation #6: The Art and Practice of True Collaboration with Robyn Whittaker

In this dialogue we covered and explored

• How collaboration in education systems in South Africa is crucial for creating a more functional and effective system.
• How active citizenship, social networks, and working together are key to addressing the challenges faced.
• Emphasized the importance of collective thinking and relationship-based learning.
• Highlighted the need for a relational approach to collaboration, that invites multiple stakeholders, to co-create a shared understanding of the problem and desired outcomes.
• How the interior condition of the convener (or facilitator) influences practicing collective thinking.

Phenonemal Conversation #5 Deep Learning in a Shallow World with Monica Sulecio Alvarez

We explored various dimensions of Deep Learning related to Guatemala where Monica lives, to online digital learning and designing education to impact head heart and hand.

Main points included;

• Meaningful learning, reflection, and inner development goals.
• Releasing the learner's own passion for the topic
• Embodied learning, transformative growth, and collaboration between teachers and learners.
• E-learning and its limitations.

Phenomenal Conversation #3 The Unexpected Benefit of Exploring Wonder in a less than wonderful world with Joeri Kabalt PhD

In this interview Joeri explains how cultivating the transformational capacity of Wonder connects deeply to life even in turbulent times

Areas covered in the dialogue include;

• Origins of her journey into Wonder and finding the ordinary in the extraordinary
• The value of Wonder in a world in a global state of emergency?
• The variety of dimensions of Wonder
• Awe and Wonder in relationship to self other and nature
• Expectation, presupposition, openness, unknowingness and Wonder

Phenomenal Conversation #2 Grounded Hope : Reimagining Business and the Economywith Graham Boyd

In this Phenomenal Conversation #2 Graham Boyd outlines his perspective that Grounded Hope offers a North Star or navigation point to assist us in these tumultuous and chaotic times. Key points in include

• Paralells between apartheid South Africa and Corporate Captalism.
• Blame and blamelessness in the current commerical context.
• Grounded Hope, Hop-ium, Engaged Activism and Emergence.
• Key growth elements to usefully encounter the polycrisis.
• The limitations of linear logical thinking and systems transformation.
• The living sentience of regenerative economies

In this very first interview of the Phenomenal Conversation series we speak with:

Amir Freiman who is the author of 'Spiritual Transmission' and is a PhD researcher into Living Transcendence. He has been interviewing spiritual exemplars/masters from diverse backgrounds, faiths and approaches, to explore the manifestations of spirit in the world and writing academic papers on the subject.

We try to explore the relevance of his studies to a world in the crisis facing collapse or extinction.